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Anderson Cooper 360

News/Business. (2012) New. (CC)

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CNN

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01:00:00

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mpeg2video

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ac3

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1920

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1080

TOPIC FREQUENCY

Macy 16, Clackamas 13, Us 12, North Korea 9, Portland 6, Pentagon 4, Kira 4, Pyongyang 4, Oregon 4, Lou Palumbo 3, South Korea 3, The Clackamas 2, Paula Hancocks 2, Holli Bautista 2, Barbara Starr 2, James Rhodes 2, U.s. 2, Holli 2, China 2, Jeff 2,
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  CNN    Anderson Cooper 360    News/Business.   
   (2012) New. (CC)  

    December 11, 2012
    5:00 - 6:00pm PST  

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>> just quickly, when you emerged, were the police there right away? did anybody help you get out? did they question you at all about what you'd seen? >> i'm sorry, could you repeat that really quick? >> did the police question you at all? were you able to give them any information? >> no, the police were all responding, going inside the mall. they were locking everything down, so their primary concern was making sure that it was safe. they had asked people to line up if they were witnesses or to stay in the area. they're on it. >> holli, i'm glad you're safe. thank you for all of your help in reporting this story tonight. we're flat out of time. "anderson cooper 360" starts now. ashleigh, thanks. we begin with the continuing breaking news. gunmen according to some reports wearing camouflage and body armor, military style rifle, shopping mall and casualties, at least one fatality. we've had this nightmare before. you're looking at the latest
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tragic edition there. it is all at a mall in portland, the clackamas town center. these are live pictures you're looking at. according to the "portland oregonian" the gunman appeared 3:30 local time, 6:30 eastern time. let's listen to affiliate koin. >> a man with an automatic rifle opened fire near the food court. they're only confirming one dead. they say there are some wounded. they say the shooter has been neutralized and the situation is calm there. you heard mario, the worker saying the s.w.a.t. team came in and escorted people out of the mall. >> we have someone else on the phone who was inside the mall for the whole thing. nina, can you hear us? >> yes, i can. >> first of all, are you safe? >> i'm safe, thank you. >> you're out of the mall now? >> yes, definitely. >> tell us what happened to you today in there? >> so i actually witnessed first hand the gunman entering the scene. i was in the macy's store
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shopping. and a slender, white man in black wearing a hockey mask like a "friday the 13th" kind of version of it, sort of white just plain faced hockey mask came jogging through the macy's running toward the public area, and he was holding in full view an assault rifle. and so he most likely entered through one of the back entrances of the macy's and just in plain view ran through holding the weapon and once he entered the public area outside of macy's, we heard gunshots and as everyone has said, there was just a flood of people, everyone ran towards the exits at that point to get out. >> it just sounds like you are describing a horror film, to be perfectly honest with you. >> yeah. more than anything, it was very surreal. a lot of people saw him running
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through, and your first thought is it must be something, a flash mob or something, that someone's going to get together and dance or do something lighthearted. >> this can't be real. >> the last thing you think that it is, but he was carrying a real gun. >> nina, the clackamas county sheriff's office said they do want to hear from people like you. so it's important that you let them know what you saw as they try to piece this whole thing together. did you see anyone in that public area fall, fall to the ground after those shots were fired? >> no, i didn't see the shots fired. i saw him running by on his way to shoot the gun. and so it was obvious he wasn't intending to rob the store or anything. he just looked like he was heading toward a public area so that he could shoot. >> and if he was jogging, it almost seems like maybe he was on a mission. he maybe knew who he was going to find. we don't know that. we don't know if it's a random shooting or if he had intended victims in there.
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but i just cannot imagine what people in the store must have been doing. if i was shopping and saw something like that, i would just look around and say -- i would be confuse mord than anything. >> yeah, a lot of people looked at each other when he ran by. and it actually took a moment even after hearing the gunshots relatively nearby for someone to say, those are gunshots. and everyone to flood out of there. you just have a moment of trying to piece together what training thing is happening. >> as we're talking to mina. on our television screen year showing all the police officers outside. we just saw a state police truck. the governor issued a statement from salem saying the state police are on the scene. rich evans the head of the state police is there. they have the full cooperation of local agencies. so the state police are on the scene. and look at the row of ambulances lined up. >> again, jeff, i think the good news we have to report right now, even though two people have been shot, a gunman has been neutralized and one person is
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confirmed killed. we have rows and rows of ambulances parked outside of clackamas town center. right now it looks like they're not being used. so we're thankful for that, that we don't have stretchers of people being loaded out of that mall right now. we don't know if there are any more victims. we do know that people are still being escorted out of the mall right now as we speak because after these shots were fired they went into nooks and crannies, wherever they could find, and they basically hid and locked themselves in, locked themselves down. now the s.w.a.t. teams are going through the mall and clearing each little pocket of people out of the mall making sure the scene is safe and telling people to keep your head down and women and children first. can you imagine hearing that when you're walking out of a mall. >> if you do know the mall, we showed a picture someone took of shattered glass on the bannister of the excalibur gifts right there on the upper level. there's some of the damage right there. you can see the damage caused by some gunfire. our reporter is standing by
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right now live. joe, information is starting to trickle in. what have you learned from the scene? >> shoppers are now being escorted out. the same thing, jeff, over and over again, they describe it as sheer panic and terror, again being described by the shoppers who witnessed this horrific ordeal firsthand. i want to give you a live look from our vantage point. we're at the north side of the mall, just outside that macy's store where witnesses tell local koin 6 that's where the gunman entered through a rear entrance. we do see a number of officers still arriving on scene. literally dozen of ambulances here on scene. we do not know the number of victims. detectives are confirming once again at least one death. the shooting happened at a time really during the holiday shopping season. it was crowded, as you can imagine. the line for the santa was extremely long. life flight as you mentioned en route right now with at least one patient in critical
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condition. we've spoken to a number of witnesses. here's what one woman describes. >> the shots were really loud and really scary. that's what it was. i mean, it was echoing all through the mall, so nobody knew where it was coming from at first. >> how many shots? >> i heard three, and then when i saw people ran, i knew it wasn't just a joke. so i started running. that's all i heard was three and then everybody started running. >> back to a live picture here outside the clackamas town center. dozen of ambulances fire personnel as well as s.w.a.t. tabl tactical praying aal operations. the gunman, quote, neutralized according to the clackamas sheriff's office. one witness says the gunman was wearing a hockey mask and walked into the macy's store with an assault rifle. you heard that woman. she thought it was some sort of a joke, but clearly this was no prank.
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at this point, once again, a number of shoppers are being escorted out. we see a lot of traffic, vehicle traffic leaving the mall at this point. so again the situation seems to be calmed down right now, but again as you can imagine, jeff and kelly, a real tense situation. again, sheer panic and terror inside the clackamas town center within the last hours. back to you in the studio. >> we just want to reiterate that the woman we spoke to said that the man ran through macy's dressed in black with that white friday the 13th style halloween looking hockey mask on. a very frightening scene, holding an assault rifle, jogging through the macy's to get to the public part of the mall. that's when people started hearing that gunfire. >> almost like he had a mission. nicole, are you standing by on the phone. can you hear us, nicole? >> yes, i can hear you. >> what did you see? i know you were inside the mall. >> i was inside the justice store. i was ringing up a transaction.
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and i just heard a whole bunch of gunshots. i started seeing some of our lights pop out. and they were shutting off. then we all just started running. we had customers running in from the mall into our store. >> how close are you to the food court area where we hear the shooting occurred? >> we're about five stores down. >> nicole, did you see any of the victim? did you see anyone who had been shot? >> i did not see. >> we talked to a lot of people in your situation who were working there who did run to the back and kind of lock themselves in a safe area. is that what some of the folks were doing in your store? >> we did. we had about 20 people in there. >> there you hear what we know. conflicting early reports. often at this point there are conflicting early reports. one witness there talking to koin saying that she saw the alleged gunman wearing what appeared to be a white hockey mask running through the macy's store prior to his opening fire once he got outside the macy's store in this mall, describing
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him as wearing black clothing. another publiced report in the oregonian witness had said that the gunman may have had some sort of body armor on and may have had camouflage clothing. just moments ago we heard from local authorities. here's what lieutenant james rhodes had to say. >> do you have any idea what went on here, what this guy was? >> i don't have any details about identification, motive or anything of that nature. >> you heard reports that he had an ar-15 rifle. is that correct? >> he had a firearm. there's been a lot of reports, a lot of conflicting information, that's normal for this type of situation. until i see it personally or get that vafd, i can't confirm what the weapon was. >> is the shooter still alive? >> the shooter's been neutralized. i don't have the exact information on that. i'll give it to you as soon as i have it. >> do you know how many officers are here inside and out? >> i don't have an estimate. i don't have an exact count. but there's county, multiple cities, state, federal law
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enforcement, so dozens and dozens and dozens of officers. >> can you confirm what the shooter was wearing? >> i cannot. i have no details to release about the shooter at this time. >> are we talking about more than one person dead? >> up with deceased and maybe more. >> any idea how many shots were fired? >> no. >> people have not heard from their family members maybe worried that they could be here or they could be hurt. what do you want them to know? what's your advice? >> be patient. the event is calmed down at this point. there are people that you won't be able to reach until we get them out of the mall and get them to a phone. there are people giving interviews and talking to police that you won't be able to reach. we're trying to get everybody in contact with their loved ones as soon as possible. if they have questions or concerns come to the clackamas sheriff's office. >> can you walk us through the basic of this event. >> when these things happen, the initial call, lots of calls, lots of witnesses through 911. we respond immediately to the
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scene, several officers close by. lots of conflicting information about location and number of people and that type of stuff. we do our best to work through that, respond to what the witness reports say, what we hear and what we see and move as fast as we can to address and stop the situation. >> so the first officers ran in to try to find him? >> yes. >> do you know whether he was methodical about this? was he firing wildly? >> i don't have any of those details yet. i imagine as the investigation continues and we can view video surveillance, we can get those answers, but too soon to tell. >> appreciate the sensitivity of using the word "neutralize," but folks at home want to know is this guy dead? >> i'll verify that as soon as i can verify it. but he's been neutralized. >> there's only been one shooter? >> there were conflicting reports that maybe there was more than one shooter. i can tell you that one of them has been neutralized. we're trying to confirm if any others -- we don't have that information. we don't believe there are any other shooters, but we'll be
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careful and search the whole mall and make sure the mall will be closed for the duration of this and that's it. another briefing at 5:30 with more details to answer those questions for you. >> a number of people lined up against the wall back there. are those customers? are they able to leave? >> i don't know who they are. they may be witnesses we need to talk to. >> he said there would be another press conference 5:30 local time, that's 8:30 east coast time, a little more than 15 minutes from now. we'll bring that to you live. at this point, two people confirmed shot. they say one person confirmed killed. unclear if that is the shooter himself. they said the shooter has been neutralized, that's as far as they'll go, that's the word they used "neutralized." one witness reported the shooter running through macy's store with what appeared to be a semiautomatic rifle. another witness said it was an ar-15. she described him as jogging through the store. when he got out of the store still inside the mall but in a sort of more open area,
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apparently according to this one eyewitness, that's when he began to open fire. unclear how many shots were fired. one witness, we're told the "oregonian" paper as many as 60 shots fired. others saying a dozen or more shots. again there's always a lot of conflicting information on something this early now. but the bottom line, the shooter, according to police, in their words has been neutralized. joining us now retired police officer lou palumbo. clearly, the police want to make sure that there was not a second shooter involved and so we're taking this very carefully and going store by store in this mall. >> absolutely. what they do first is create an area of containment perimeter and then literally search it store by store to determine whether or not there was more than one active shooter. >> one eyewitness said that they actually closed the doors and locked people in to the store, into the mall, not letting people out because they did not know where the shooter was, if
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there were multiple shooters and they didn't want that person to escape. >> that's standard operating procedure. that's all part of -- it's a crime scene right now, anderson, a rather large one. that's kind of standard as what we'd do. lock it down and search store by store and try to identify each and every individual there and their legitimacy and proceed from there. >> it has to be a complex thing because already we're hearing from different eyewitnesses different account of what he was wearing, one said camouflage, one says body armor, one says a black and a hockey mask. you have to sort through all that. >> if there were multiple shooters and one of the shooters suddenly decided to dispose of his disguise, so to speak, he could blend in with the crowd. it's an interesting case and certainly problematic. they'll go right to videotape and capturing the tape in the mall perimeter how they entered and within the mall itself, how
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many shooters there were. that's all part of this investigation going on right now. >> according to a local affiliate, there had been as many as ten ambulances on the scene and they'd actually set up multiple treage areas, but again we don't have an account of how many people may have been injured. another deputy told -- unnamed deputy told "the oregonian" they found a full magazine on the ground and his belief was the gun may have jammed. we can't confirm that. >> the most important component of this that as many as 60 shots were fired that would lend us to the thought that this was a high capacity semiautomatic weapon of some type. whether it was an ak-47 of ar-15 which is a form of an m-16 that they use in the military, i don't want to say that it's academic, but in a sense it is. it's important they try to pin down the number of shooters, the victims, if there was more than one shooter, whether they fled or they're attempting to flee by
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blending in with the background. >> ythe other question to figur out is motive for this, whether it was the kind of shootings of a disturbed person as we've seen before, if it was targeting a disgruntled worker targeting a store or former place of employment or something else. >> taking into account the report where there were approximately 60 shots fired, i don't think that would lend itself to the fact that this was some type of retaliatory reaction to an individual or a worker. the past five shootings that we've decided were noteworthy, for example, virginia tech, gabrielle gifford, aurora, wisconsin and texas & am, probably what we're going to find here once again is someone who is mentally defective. and that would address the question of how are they getting their hands on these weapons. that's answered by there's a flaw in the system. >> we'll continue to follow it. we're anticipating another press conference with more information about 12 minutes from now. stay tuned for that.
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and as we follow that, there is more breaking news tonight. halfway around the world involving north korea's missile programming. an alarming new test to tell you about. americans believe they should be in charge of their own future.
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welcome back. we're waiting for a press conference on the shooting out in oregon. eyewitness accounts are emerging. some of them contradictory. one of them is holli bautista. what did you hear? when did you realize something was going wrong? >> originally i had heard a couple things that i thought sounded like firecrackers. as soon as i realized what was going on there with people running and screaming, "someb y
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"somebody's shooting," i was in the food court area, the insistent was to run to an exit. but you could still hear gunshots multiple in a pretty chaotic scene. >> how close were you to the food court? my understanding according to one other eyewitness who was in the macy's, she actually say or says she saw the alleged shooter running through or jogging through the macy's with his weapon visible and it was only after he left the macy's into i guess the food court area that he actually opened fire. so how far away from the food court were you? >> i was within feet. you know, i could visually see it. i really wasn't paying attention, i guess, to see somebody running through with a weapon. i was shopping for a dress for my daughter. so you know, i didn't witness that although when i did turn around to hear gunshots, i did see people ducking.
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it was the first thing i noticed. it was something pretty terrifying. there were children in the area running towards the exits. the macy's and multiple stores open directly into the food court area. so it's a very common, almost centralized place of the mall. >> obviously it's incredibly distressing thing. do you have any idea how many shots you may have heard being fired? >> you know, at the beginning it was just a few. i honestly don't recall. >> i understand. >> like i said, multiple. if i had to estimate, i would say i heard around ten total. when we were closer to the exits there were so many people trying to get by on the smaller doors, you could hear that, but amongst that were people in fear trying to get out. >> were you able to leave? at one point the police actually closed the doors because they didn't want people leaving because they didn't know if there were more than one shooter involved. were you just able to leave? >> originally no, i wasn't.
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then as soon as we did get out the doors, it was within minutes they had all of the exits into the mall parking lot locked down, you know, they had a perimeter set up. so we were not able to leave in our vehicles. there was multiple agencies responding from multiple cities around the portland metro area. ems, fire trucks came through, our county incident response team was there. now they have triage tents set up and they're finally allowing vehicles to evacuate. but at first, no. there are still people locked down in the mall, but they're going through and sweeping now and step by step to get them out safely. they're working very well together. give credit to law enforcement, there's multiple people trying to help and respond to this incident at the same time. >> do you have a sense of -- i mean, did you see any injuries? you said there were multiple triage areas set up.
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as many as three. are they active? are you aware? >> they are active. life flight has responded and the life flight helicopters here only take patients to two hospitals in our local area. they have left with patients. there are also ambulances backed up to one of the triage tents up front, out of an rei store in the bottom of macy's. everything here is still active. i do still know that there is, i believe, an incident tent set up on the other side of the mall. i'm across the street now evacuated. so i'm unable to see up front, but i do know that, yes, there is a lot going on here. >> in a situation like this, obviously adrenaline starts pumping through you. just one thing to see this on tv, holli, it's another thing for you to have experienced this. what was it like? what was going through your mind? >> i'm terrified. it's scary. the first thing is you want to help people around you. when you get outside, you start
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thinking of family, i have a nephew that works inside of the mall. you know, that's where my mind goes to. but it was also how do i get out of here and get out of here quickly, which is difficult when they're trying to maintain, you know, a scene so they can handle what's going on. very scary. and you know, my thoughts and prayers are with anybody that's injured. i'm thankful that i'm safe, but my heart goes out to them and their family. >> yeah, and i certainly echo that and all of us here do. holli, i appreciate you talking in such a controlled way. i know this has been an extraordinarily difficult night for you. thank you so much. >> thank you. >> we're going to have more on the breaking story out of oregon. what we know right now, two people believed to have been shot. one person killed. we do not know if that is the shooter. the police say that the shooter has been neutralized, they're their word "neutralized." many ambulances on the scene and as you heard from holli, triage scenes set up that were active.
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a press conference four minutes from now. we'll take a short break. a lot of weight,ying c-max has a nice little trait, you see, c-max helps you load your freight, with its foot-activated lift gate. but that's not all you'll see, cause c-max also beats prius v, with better mpg. say hi to the all-new 47 combined mpg c-max hybrid.
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welcome back. we're waiting momentarily to hear from local authorities on the clackamas town center mall in portland, oregon. we've heard from a number of witnesses about what they saw and heard. what we do have confirmed right now is at least one person is dead. police say the shooter is, quote, neutralized. we don't know if the one person dead is the shooter. joining me is lou palumbo, currently director of the elite intelligence and protection group. you've been noticing the coordination among the agencies involved here. it seems like there was a pretty
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big response pretty quickly. >> there seemed to be a well coordinated response based on the timeline that we're able to track. what we're finding today is that more and more of these agencies because of the type of incidents we're involved in collaborate in response. what this young lady holli bautista alluded to multiple agencies, that's what we refer to as mutual aid. it's becoming more common in law enforcement today. i'm pretty sure that by the time this thing really got rolling, we probably had the fbi on the property also because there's always that concern of potential terrorism. other agencies, bomb squads, possibly atf. >> 3:29 local time this afternoon is when the calls started to come in or when the shooting, we believe began, 6:27 local time. we talked to an affiliate who said she witnessed the shooter who she described as jogging through the macy's. she believed he may have entered through a back way at macy's and
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jogged past her with what seemed to be a semiautomatic rifle, ar-15, then opened fire. once he left macy's in the food court area where many stores enter into. a lot of people were, sadly, in a position to see and hear this nightmare unfold. we're starting to get more and more eyewitnesses here. i want to bring in christina fisher, she spoke with local affiliate koin. let's listen. >> i was walking on the lower level heading from the west end toward the east end of the mall under the food court. all of a sudden i heard something similar to a .22 poppinging probably eight times. and people dropping everywhere, people screaming. then people just turned and started running in terror. people were dropping their kids. it was chaos for a few minutes. but people were really cooperative after the initial
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shock. everyone was helping handicapped and people with small children. everyone cooperated. really well as everybody just ran towards sears. and they came through and they were going to let us out, then by the time we got to the outside doors, they locked us in. so they just said, we don't know where the shooter is and we're on lockdown. >> christina, you said you were locked inside the mall? >> yeah, they locked us inside sears. >> so is that where you are right now? >> no, no. we've been let out. >> okay. >> the clackamas county sheriffs that was -- they lined the hall with sheriffs and the several that spoke to us said that the situation is well under control and that the shooter has been disabled. so there was no reason to have fear as far as they know is what
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they told us. try to stay alert. of course your adrenaline is pumping. there were some people who were crying and there were children who were crying, scared and confused. and there was a -- you know, a few elderly people that weren't very mobile that were very upset. so you know everybody was trying to help each other. we were told to stay in a group at the top of the escalators and stay away from windows in the middle of the building. we stood there for probably i would say a good 20 minute to a half hour. then all of a sudden somebody came running through with a radio yelling get down. so a lot of people just stood there, some got down. the ones that i considered survivalists ran. i personally ducked inside a tool chest. we ran and the rumor was that he
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had been running between stores and then the next thing we know a sheriff came into the building and said everything was okay. >> obviously a lot of rumors, a lot of speculation early on. we're still trying to figure out what exactly occurred here. it looks like we're about to hear from clackamas county sheriff's department. we heard from them about 20 minutes ago. let's listen in. >> sergeant james rhodes. >> thank you. at this time the mall remains closed and we continue to search the mall methodically and carefully looking for anybody else who might be injured. there's several employees and patrons of the mall who have secured themselves or hidden in various rooms and carefully one at a time we're approaching those people gathering and escorting them out of the mall. i can confirm that we believe at this point that there was one and only one shooter involved and that shooter is deceased. in addition to that, we have at least one patient who was taken
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from the mall with a traumatic injury and at least two that were deceased in addition to the shooter. >> at least two what? >> two dead in addition to the shooter. >> two dead -- >> did the officer take his own life or did officers -- >> i'm not ready -- i'm not prepared to answer that question yet. i'm trying to protect some of the investigation at this point because we want to be certain that we do everything we can to confirm that there's just the one and that we haven't missed anything and so forth. protecting that information is important. >> can you tell us what he was wearing? >> some of the information i will not release is specifics as to age of the shooter or what they were wearing, the nature of the firearm and those type of things we need to protect until we've gathered all the evidence. >> can you tell us a man or woman? >> it's male. >> besides the one traumatic injury, are there any other serious injuries? >> at this point just the one injury. >> that's the life flight thencht went by ground initially to a trauma institute.
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>> one injured in total and not -- >> as it stands right now, one injured that was transported, two dead and the shooter dead. >> how are you continuing the investigation inside? >> so right now our focus is we have nearly a hundred officers here from city, state, federal, local law enforcement and teams carefully searching the mall for anybody else who might be injured, anybody else who has hidden in there and we will search this entire mall until wee certain that it's secure and everybody has been removed. >> how many people are still inside? >> it's hard to tell at this point. we've already evacuated hundreds of people. there are probably less than that remaining in there. but until we search it all, i can't give you a number. >> at what time was this shooter neutralized, as you said? either shot himself or you killed him. >> i don't have a specific time, but obviously after our arrival. >> we started receiving calls at 3:30, multiple 911 calls.
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we responded quickly. we developed small teams of officers who immediately enter the mall and try to find and locate the shooting suspect and those type of things. >> where in the mall, what stores or -- >> i'm not going to reveal that detail at this time. where it began specifically in the mall is unclear. there was multiple people, multiple witness accounts coming from inside the mall and various stores inside the mall. >> what can you tell us about the people who died, store employees? >> i don't know. >> can you tell us their ages? >> i'm not going to release any of those details. >> i'm sorry, say again? >> do you know what entrance he used? >> i don't. details about motive, method, that type of thing, i don't have that information at this time. >> do you know how many shots fired? >> transition right now to some other information we need to get out about witnesses and family members. >> if you are a witness to this event, we're interested in your information. so please contact the clackamas county sheriff's office. you can either come directly to
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the shsheriff's office or 5036558201. i understand there are probably many people concerned about family, friends and loved ones. be patient because the number of people that are here have everywemed the cell phone system so it's difficult to call even if they have a signal. additionally many people inside the mall that don't have a cell phone. when we get to these folks, we'll get them out and make sure they're in touch with you. if they're not released directly from the mall, we'll transport them to the clackamas county sheriff's office and you can contact us and we'll put you in touch with your loved ones there. >> can you tell us anything about the gun? >> i can't talk specifics about the gun. but if you want to fool this incident you can follow this on our twitter fee feed @clackcosheriff. you can follow this on www.flashalert.net. >> how many officers are still
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here? >> have you recovered the weapon? >> we've recovered a weapon. but until we search the entire mall -- >> where did you find the shooter's body? >> my next briefing will be at 6:30 here. >> where did you find the shooter's body? >> that's all for now. thank you. >> clearly not wanting -- understandable not wanting to give out too many details. the bottom line the shooter is dead. will not say whether the shooter took his own life or was killed by officers or somebody else. there had been an unconfirmed report that the shooter had taken his own life. that was in the "oregonian." we cannot confirm that nor would the sheriff at this point. one person was taken away in an ambulance with a traumatic injury and two victims are dead. so three people dead total, one of whom is the shooter, two victims dead and one person with a traumatic injury. as many as a hundred officer still on the scene and they're still searching the mall.
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we're back with lou palumbo and on the phone kyra rowland. where were you when the shooting occurred? >> i was in macy's. and i was right by the perfume department. you don't know the setup of macy's, but the perfume department is about 20 to 25 feet away from the opening of macy's inside the mall. >> so when did you realize something wrong was going on? >> when there was -- after two shots were fired and after everybody started to hit the ground is when i knew something was very wrong. >> did you see the shooter at any point? >> no, i did not see the shooter. after the shots were fired, i have a baby -- i have a 6-month-old baby and he was in my arms while i was looking at the -- and two shots were fire
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and everybody just kind of looked around, was confused. and then more shots were fired, about five to seven. and everybody started to hit the ground. and i started to get on the ground, but then everybody -- there were more shots then. and so i threw my baby into the stroller and just started running because everybody was screaming and everybody just started to run, and then i finally got out of the mall, and i had forgotten where i parked. so i was just standing out there kind of just oblivious. and somebody said, i needed to run because the guy's still, you know, sat large and he could be any one of us. so some lady picked me up and drove me across the street. i come home and i turn on the news and i find out that the gunman was right outside of macy's and headed towards me and my baby basically. after his rifle had jammed, he
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came right into macy's. and i just -- i think if i hadn't stopped to sit and -- if i hadn't stopped to smell that perfume that maybe me and my baby wouldn't be here today. >> kira, i understand, you are obviously incredibly upset. you said that his gun jammed. where did you get that information? >> that was on the news. that his rounds -- >> right. >> -- he had pointed it at a woman and then his gun had jammed. >> we'll just point out that that's an unconfirmed report at this point. there had been some reports about that. how are you holding up, kira. >>? i'm okay. every time i talk about it i just kind of relive it again. and it's very terrifying. and i just -- i'm just thinking, you know, in hindsight how lucky i am. and i know we have an angel with
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us today because i was so close, we were so close. >> do you have any idea how many shots you heard, kira, total? you talk about two shots, then five to seven. >> about 20 to 25. >> 20 to 25. listen, kira, i can't imagine what this has been like for you. i wish you the best. i'm so glad you got out safe with your baby. thank you so much. >> thank you so much. >> kira rowland. one of the people in the macy's at the time as the shooting began. again one person injured with a traumatic injury according to the sheriffs, two victims dead, and the third person who died is the shooter. unclear whether the shooter took his own life or whether he was shot by law enforcement or by somebody else. that's the sad and bottom line at clackamas county in oregon, tonight. 100 law enforcement still on the scene still searching very carefully through this mall to find any other weapon that may
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have been involved, any other shooter that may have been there. >> they're performing a number of tasks as well as a search. they've got to go out, believe it or not, and pick up every empty casing, identify where every round ended up or landed, in a mall, attempt to retrieve them. they're at the same time running the serial number on this weapon, they're creating a profile of the shooter. the interesting thing is the sergeant during the press conference used the word "they're" referring to more than one. i don't know if that was just a slip. they may have been thinking there is more than one shooter. i find that a little difficult. normally shootings like this type, it's normally one deranged individual. the exception to that is columbine, the trenchcoat mafia, there were two young men. but as a rule, that's an individual who has left the world of reality and has decided this is something they need to do. >> still information gathering at this point, lou. i appreciate your expertise. there's breaking news halfway around the world involving north korea's missile program.
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breaking news now with global implications. north korea has just tested another missile.
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we'll talk to paula hancocks shortly who will join us from south korea shortly. on the phone is pentagon correspondent barbara starr. what are you hearing out of the pentagon? >> reporter: anderson, at this hour, u.s. officials are looking at all the incoming intelligence trying to figure out exactly what north korea has launched. the news agencies across asia, say it was a three-stage long-range rocket. that's the kind of rocket that has the u.s. most worried because it can have intercontinental range. but the question is exactly what did they launch, how far did it fly, what kind of capability it had because you know they had that failed test back in april. if they were actually able to do more successful tests this time, so quickly after the failed one, how did they get better, who helped them? that's the question tonight. >> let's check in with paula hancocks who is joining us from
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seoul, south korea. do we know if this launch was successful? >> reporter: that's what everyone is trying to figure out at this point. the military is tracking the orbit to try to figure out whether or not this was a success. we don't have word yet whether or not this was a success. we know there's a national security meeting going on, the president, the vice president, the defense minister are in a room trying to figure out that question whether or not it was a success. but i think this would have taken the president and many of the officials by surprise considering just two days ago north korea said it was having technical issues. so i don't think anybody within south korea really expected this launch to happen so soon. especially when you consider they actually extended their launch window. they said their launch window would go until the 29th of december just to give themselves a about it more time, then suddenly they launched it this morning. this would have taken many officials by surprise. anderson. >> when it's launched, where is it -- i mean -- pointed toward?
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is it supposed to just go out to sea? >> well, it's basically launched from the west coast of the country, the, so ohei launch station. but trajectory, if it's a success and stays on that flight path it's supposed to, would be over open water. it wouldn't be actually traveling over any territory at all. and north korea was quite specific about this back on december the 1st when they announced they'd carry out this rocket launch. they insisted they had a flight path that was safe. they insisted it wasn't going to affect any neighbors countries. of course you have the likes of japan setting up patriot missiles to shoot down any remnant ors debris if it would hit their country. they wanted to make sure the international community knew that was the case. that's not just what the international community is focusing on. another interesting point to make -- i spoke with a seen your government official just a couple days ago, he said that
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this is obviously a slap in the face for china as well if they go ahead with this launch because china just, a day before they've announced this possible rocket launch, had been to see them. there had been a politburo member going to pyongyang trying to convince them not to carry out this rocket launch, and yet they've gone ahead with it anyway. certainly we can see relations souring a little there. >> paula, when they've had launcheses that have failed in the past, do they admit the failure? >> well, you know, that's interesting, anderson, they actually did admit back in april the launch was a failure. that was the first time ever that we'd heard those words from pyongyang, the fact that something had failed. in the past, back in 2006, 2009, they had claimed domestically that it was a grand success and that they managed to put a satellite up into orbit. internationally we fwhoo that wasn't the case and they were failures but internally they always wanted to say things were a success. that changed in april probably
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because they had the international media camped out in pyongyang as well. so they couldn't necessarily lie about it. but another interesting point is just two days ago we saw some rare honesty from pyongyang admitting that they had technical difficulties with this rocket launch as well and there were issues that they had to work through. so we are seeing a little bit more transparency, if you like, from this incredibly isolated regime, but obviously the bottom line is the international community didn't want them to go ahead with this rocket launch and they disregarded that and went ahead with it anyway. >> barbara starr at the pentagon, how quickly does the pentagon figure out whether or not this launch has been successful? do they already know? >> yeah, they will know very quickly. there are a number of classified systems, satellites, aircraft that can gather signals intelligence out of the air literally. several days ago the u.s. navy put a number of ships in the region that have very powerful
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radars and surveillance systems. so all of that is gathering up all the data. they will look at it. and they are very experienced. they'll be able to determine pretty closely what kind of missile, where it flew, where it fell, how long it flew, and again it goes back to what paula was saying. if this launch really was a three-stage rocket and it really was successful, more successful than the failed one back in april, the big question for the intelligence community right now is how did the north koreans do it and, like we sid, is someone out there helping them, perhaps the iranians? that become a much more important complex foreign policy issue for the government, anderson. >> i'll rebroadcast a report i did for "60 minutes" about a concentration camp inside north korea. we often focus on these rocket launches not so much the humanitarian rights issues that are going on inside north korea.
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the extraordinary story of a young man who spent the first 23 years of his life in a concentration camp in north korea, actually born into this concentration camp, the only person known to have been born there and to have escaped. he tells his remarkable story. we'll have his report later on 360. we'll have the latest on the clackamas town center shooting. ? it's lots of things. all waking up. connecting to the global phenomenon we call the internet of everything. ♪ it's going to be amazing. and exciting. and maybe, most remarkably, not that far away. we're going to wake the world up. and watch, with eyes wide, as it gets to work. cisco. tomorrow starts here.
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updating quickly our breaking news out of the pacific northwest, three people killed, a gunman opening fire with an assault rifle at the clackamas town center just outside portland. the gunman is did, so are two of his victims. another is being treated. reporter spoke to local officials a short time ago. >> at this time the mall remains closed and we continue to search methodically looking for anybody else who might be injured. there are several employees and patrons of the mall who may have secured themselves or hidden in various rooms and one at a time we're approaching them, gathering them and escorting them out of the mall. i can confirm we believe at this point there was one shooter involved and that shooter is deceased. in addition to that we have at least one patient who was taken from the mall with a traumatic injury and at least two that were deceased in addition to the shooter. >> joining me now by phone is
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rick bell, a staff writer for portland's "oregonian" newspaper. what is the latest you've heard beyond what that sheriff said, if anything? >> well, at this point they're de-escalating from what was complete chaos. the mall was gripped by shock and horror because it was filled with holiday shoppers and all of a sudden this scene unfolded. two dead is what we heard also, the last thing we heard, including and the shooter, and that one with critical injuries but maybe as many as six others with some less injuries. the one with critical injurieses was taken by helicopter or ambulance to a local hospital. >> i understand there had been some reports, unconfirmed early on, that the shooter's gun may have jammed. i think i may have seen that in the "oregonian." do you have any information on that? >> i haven't been able to confirm that. we heard that it was jammed and that a deputy found a loaded magazine lying on the floor at some point, but i don't